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	<title>Comments on: Falkland Islands: Nothing More Than a Symbol of Pride</title>
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	<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/</link>
	<description>Bob Symon Talks About Weather, History and Anything Else that Suits His Fancy</description>
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		<title>By: guirizano</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guirizano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well to using your own analogy, Argentina was not &quot;spun off by the parent (Spain). It declared independence (unilaterally and took its independence by force). No rights or obligations were inherited. Issues between Spain and Britain have nothing to do with Argentina, the point I tried to make in my very first comment, when I asked you to explain how Argentina could possibly &quot;inherit&quot; any rights (or obligations) from Spain.

True, changing technology could make some of the oil more accessible, but what has not changed is the knowledge that oil exists. In your comment you said it had &quot;now... been found&quot;. That clearly implies that oil is a new factor. It is not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well to using your own analogy, Argentina was not &#8220;spun off by the parent (Spain). It declared independence (unilaterally and took its independence by force). No rights or obligations were inherited. Issues between Spain and Britain have nothing to do with Argentina, the point I tried to make in my very first comment, when I asked you to explain how Argentina could possibly &#8220;inherit&#8221; any rights (or obligations) from Spain.</p>
<p>True, changing technology could make some of the oil more accessible, but what has not changed is the knowledge that oil exists. In your comment you said it had &#8220;now&#8230; been found&#8221;. That clearly implies that oil is a new factor. It is not.</p>
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		<title>By: symonsez</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7896</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[symonsez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 20:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First off, a branch of a company can&#039;t just declare independence and walk.  A branch would be spun off by the parent.  Technology plays a part in the oil exploration as well as the price.  Some of the deeper waters were not accessible 20 years ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, a branch of a company can&#8217;t just declare independence and walk.  A branch would be spun off by the parent.  Technology plays a part in the oil exploration as well as the price.  Some of the deeper waters were not accessible 20 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: guirizano</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guirizano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you really think that a branch which breaks away from the mother company without some kind of agreed process would be allowed to take on what are effectively the mother company&#039;s contracts? I find that very hard to envisage. If it was agreed then I can completely understand how that would be possible, but if it was unilateral and not agreed then it doesn&#039;t seem likely.

You said &quot;Now that oil has been found in the vicinity...&quot;. I was simply pointing out that oil was found there the best part of four decades ago, so it&#039;s not a new factor.

It goes without saying that oil exploration (because that is happening at the moment) has ramped up because of the high oil price. You might be aware that in 1995 Argentina and the UK (on behalf of the Falklands) signed a hydrocarbons agreement to cooperate in the region. The current exploration in Falkland waters was organised in advance under this agreement. It was the Argentine government who walked away and now accuse the FIG of acting unilaterally...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really think that a branch which breaks away from the mother company without some kind of agreed process would be allowed to take on what are effectively the mother company&#8217;s contracts? I find that very hard to envisage. If it was agreed then I can completely understand how that would be possible, but if it was unilateral and not agreed then it doesn&#8217;t seem likely.</p>
<p>You said &#8220;Now that oil has been found in the vicinity&#8230;&#8221;. I was simply pointing out that oil was found there the best part of four decades ago, so it&#8217;s not a new factor.</p>
<p>It goes without saying that oil exploration (because that is happening at the moment) has ramped up because of the high oil price. You might be aware that in 1995 Argentina and the UK (on behalf of the Falklands) signed a hydrocarbons agreement to cooperate in the region. The current exploration in Falkland waters was organised in advance under this agreement. It was the Argentine government who walked away and now accuse the FIG of acting unilaterally&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: symonsez</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7894</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[symonsez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The branch company would have to take on the contracts and obligations associated with that branch.  As for the oil, it may have been known but having the ability to get it is another thing as well as the cost effectiveness.  It has been known for many many years that there is a bunch of oil in the Austin Chalk, between Houston and Austin, but it wasn&#039;t until the 1980&#039;s that it was economically feasible to extract it.  When the price of oil dropped in the late 80&#039;s, the drillers all went home.  I appreciate your participation and your passion on the subject.  For the record, I do think that the Falklands belongs to the UK.  Many of your perceptions are incorrect but again, I&#039;ll take the blame for not communicating properly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The branch company would have to take on the contracts and obligations associated with that branch.  As for the oil, it may have been known but having the ability to get it is another thing as well as the cost effectiveness.  It has been known for many many years that there is a bunch of oil in the Austin Chalk, between Houston and Austin, but it wasn&#8217;t until the 1980&#8242;s that it was economically feasible to extract it.  When the price of oil dropped in the late 80&#8242;s, the drillers all went home.  I appreciate your participation and your passion on the subject.  For the record, I do think that the Falklands belongs to the UK.  Many of your perceptions are incorrect but again, I&#8217;ll take the blame for not communicating properly.</p>
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		<title>By: guirizano</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7893</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guirizano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 18:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We may well be not communicating very well, but it&#039;s a conversation worth having. 

Your example of one company acquiring another makes no sense. A better example would be a branch office breaking away from the &quot;mother&quot; company. Do you think that branch would be allowed to trade in the mother company&#039;s name, using their logo? I don&#039;t think so... There was no ordered and agreed acquisition of anything in the case of Argentine independence. Argentina took its independence from Spain by force, it fought for independence using guns and bullets. How could Argentina possibly &quot;inherit&quot; any of Spains rights and obligations? What&#039;s more is that since the 1790s Britain had in  retained rights in the Falklands under the Nootka Sound Convention - Spain&#039;s title was not unlimited. And post 1833 Spain never once denied the Falklands were British.

You seem to think that Argentine opinion and Falklander opinion should be given equal weight. The last time I checked it was the Falkland Islanders who had the right to self determination in the Falklands, which means Argentine opinion over what happens there is irrelevant. 

I know the Pascoe/Pepper document uses words like &quot;nonsense&quot;, but that is for the simple reason that some of what the Argentine government puts out is nothing less than nonsense. Nonsense is a polite word for some of their blatant lies.

By the way, it has been know that oil might exist around the Falklands since the 1960s and there were finds in the 1970s, so it&#039;s nothing new.

Whatever the &quot;utility&quot; of the Falkland Islands, the UK has an obligation to the Falkland Islanders under international law. The only pride in this equation is Argentine pride.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We may well be not communicating very well, but it&#8217;s a conversation worth having. </p>
<p>Your example of one company acquiring another makes no sense. A better example would be a branch office breaking away from the &#8220;mother&#8221; company. Do you think that branch would be allowed to trade in the mother company&#8217;s name, using their logo? I don&#8217;t think so&#8230; There was no ordered and agreed acquisition of anything in the case of Argentine independence. Argentina took its independence from Spain by force, it fought for independence using guns and bullets. How could Argentina possibly &#8220;inherit&#8221; any of Spains rights and obligations? What&#8217;s more is that since the 1790s Britain had in  retained rights in the Falklands under the Nootka Sound Convention &#8211; Spain&#8217;s title was not unlimited. And post 1833 Spain never once denied the Falklands were British.</p>
<p>You seem to think that Argentine opinion and Falklander opinion should be given equal weight. The last time I checked it was the Falkland Islanders who had the right to self determination in the Falklands, which means Argentine opinion over what happens there is irrelevant. </p>
<p>I know the Pascoe/Pepper document uses words like &#8220;nonsense&#8221;, but that is for the simple reason that some of what the Argentine government puts out is nothing less than nonsense. Nonsense is a polite word for some of their blatant lies.</p>
<p>By the way, it has been know that oil might exist around the Falklands since the 1960s and there were finds in the 1970s, so it&#8217;s nothing new.</p>
<p>Whatever the &#8220;utility&#8221; of the Falkland Islands, the UK has an obligation to the Falkland Islanders under international law. The only pride in this equation is Argentine pride.</p>
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		<title>By: symonsez</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7889</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[symonsez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We just are not communicating very well.  Even in business, when one company acquires another, it takes on the obligations and contracts made by the acquired company.  The thinking with Argentina is that, since Spain never acknowledged that the islands were rightfully British, they figured it was good enough for them.  I&#039;m not siding with anyone. The notion that it was over pride comes from the fact that neither nation has (had)any utitlity for the islands and that had been the case from the beginning based on the fact that whomever &quot;discovered&quot; them never bothered to stop by and it took a long time for anyone to even check them out.  The bias comes from the verbiage of the documents...as I stated...they offer their point of view and uses terms such as &quot;nonsense&quot; which is hardly objective.  From an Argentinians point of view, the perspective would be different yet, since we are only shown the Falklanders (British subjects) opinion, then we are left to assume that theres is the only truth.  It reminds me of my wifes aunt who, when I was researching a thesis regarding Louisville history, told me all I needed to know was in a book she wrote for middle school students in the early 1960&#039;s.  It was the truth...but a truth that she wanted to present, which means it was absent any mention of racial, ethnic and financial issues involving the city and it led one to believe that Louisville was part of the Confederacy when, in fact, Louisville was the home base for the Union&#039;s Army of the Ohio which was invited into the state by the Kentucky Legislature.  

Look, you make it sound like I&#039;m siding with the Argentinians when I really do not.  It&#039;s tough in the 21st century to make such a claim, especially since they got it handed to them in 1982.  Now that oil has been found in the vicinity, it may be interesting to see if Argentina tries again.   I doubt they will as their  people probably want none of that.  Nevertheless, it may be tempting given the financial situation of the UK and other nations perhaps limiting the ability and will power of that nation to make a stand like the Iron Lady did nearly 30 years ago.  

I do appreciate your adding to the discussion and the link, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We just are not communicating very well.  Even in business, when one company acquires another, it takes on the obligations and contracts made by the acquired company.  The thinking with Argentina is that, since Spain never acknowledged that the islands were rightfully British, they figured it was good enough for them.  I&#8217;m not siding with anyone. The notion that it was over pride comes from the fact that neither nation has (had)any utitlity for the islands and that had been the case from the beginning based on the fact that whomever &#8220;discovered&#8221; them never bothered to stop by and it took a long time for anyone to even check them out.  The bias comes from the verbiage of the documents&#8230;as I stated&#8230;they offer their point of view and uses terms such as &#8220;nonsense&#8221; which is hardly objective.  From an Argentinians point of view, the perspective would be different yet, since we are only shown the Falklanders (British subjects) opinion, then we are left to assume that theres is the only truth.  It reminds me of my wifes aunt who, when I was researching a thesis regarding Louisville history, told me all I needed to know was in a book she wrote for middle school students in the early 1960&#8242;s.  It was the truth&#8230;but a truth that she wanted to present, which means it was absent any mention of racial, ethnic and financial issues involving the city and it led one to believe that Louisville was part of the Confederacy when, in fact, Louisville was the home base for the Union&#8217;s Army of the Ohio which was invited into the state by the Kentucky Legislature.  </p>
<p>Look, you make it sound like I&#8217;m siding with the Argentinians when I really do not.  It&#8217;s tough in the 21st century to make such a claim, especially since they got it handed to them in 1982.  Now that oil has been found in the vicinity, it may be interesting to see if Argentina tries again.   I doubt they will as their  people probably want none of that.  Nevertheless, it may be tempting given the financial situation of the UK and other nations perhaps limiting the ability and will power of that nation to make a stand like the Iron Lady did nearly 30 years ago.  </p>
<p>I do appreciate your adding to the discussion and the link, though.</p>
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		<title>By: guirizano</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7887</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guirizano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, you made a typo. Fair enough. Even so, your argument is jumbled and incoherent. You say it&#039;s all about pride but conveniently ignore the Falkland Islanders right to self determination. 

The Argentine claim is unfounded. Yet they chose to invade causing the loss of &quot;blood and treasure&quot;. They ignored a UN Security Council resolution to get out. Personally I&#039;m glad Mrs Thatcher decided to defend British territory and those &quot;few folk&quot; you seem to feel were not worth anything. Not because of pride, but on principle. I know her decision saved Mrs Thatchers political neck. So what? She did the right thing. The Falkland Islanders are not under some unelected Argentine dictatorship&#039;s yoke.

My source &quot;seems to have an anglo bias&quot;. Perhaps then you could explain why most of his original source documents are held in the Argentine national archives. My source is simply pointing out the gaping holes in the Argentine position and claim.

Now I&#039;d love to know how you think Argentina has anything to do with this when it was a matter between Britain and Spain, as you state in your post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, you made a typo. Fair enough. Even so, your argument is jumbled and incoherent. You say it&#8217;s all about pride but conveniently ignore the Falkland Islanders right to self determination. </p>
<p>The Argentine claim is unfounded. Yet they chose to invade causing the loss of &#8220;blood and treasure&#8221;. They ignored a UN Security Council resolution to get out. Personally I&#8217;m glad Mrs Thatcher decided to defend British territory and those &#8220;few folk&#8221; you seem to feel were not worth anything. Not because of pride, but on principle. I know her decision saved Mrs Thatchers political neck. So what? She did the right thing. The Falkland Islanders are not under some unelected Argentine dictatorship&#8217;s yoke.</p>
<p>My source &#8220;seems to have an anglo bias&#8221;. Perhaps then you could explain why most of his original source documents are held in the Argentine national archives. My source is simply pointing out the gaping holes in the Argentine position and claim.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;d love to know how you think Argentina has anything to do with this when it was a matter between Britain and Spain, as you state in your post.</p>
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		<title>By: symonsez</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[symonsez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe you missed the entire point of the whole article.  It had  nothing to do with a few folks who have been born and raised a British subjects desiring to remain such rather than becoming Argentinian.  It is about the utility, or lack thereof, of the islands and that there is no concrete, pragmatic reason for any nation to risk its blood and treasure over the islands.  As for chronology, I can accept that you are capable of making a mistake by utilizing one source and taking it as gospel though you seem to be incapable of giving me teh same consideration in a response that i said 1870 instead of 1770, which the article (if you really read it and read for content) clearly states.  And since you obviously read the article, then you would find that the documentation that I used is the very same one referenced in your link, the one associated with Samuel Johnson.  Today, there are apparent economic interests beyond national pride for Britain to defend the islands and Argentina to continue to claim them for the oil that is apparently in the area.  Your link seems to emphasize that there was no real economic or pragmatic reason for anyone to claim the islands, or fight for them, as the Spanish and Brits figured out in 1770.  An issue I would have  with your condescending tone (and lack of answering your own question) is that your source seems to have an anglo bias and does not give the Argentinian point of view.  I had zero agenda in the writing of my little piece but it does seem the link you posted as gospel does indeed have an agenda.  As for your statement, in the late 20th century, the reason why the islands are British is because of Margaret Thatcher, the British Royal Navy and British Royal Marines.

Thanx for writing]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe you missed the entire point of the whole article.  It had  nothing to do with a few folks who have been born and raised a British subjects desiring to remain such rather than becoming Argentinian.  It is about the utility, or lack thereof, of the islands and that there is no concrete, pragmatic reason for any nation to risk its blood and treasure over the islands.  As for chronology, I can accept that you are capable of making a mistake by utilizing one source and taking it as gospel though you seem to be incapable of giving me teh same consideration in a response that i said 1870 instead of 1770, which the article (if you really read it and read for content) clearly states.  And since you obviously read the article, then you would find that the documentation that I used is the very same one referenced in your link, the one associated with Samuel Johnson.  Today, there are apparent economic interests beyond national pride for Britain to defend the islands and Argentina to continue to claim them for the oil that is apparently in the area.  Your link seems to emphasize that there was no real economic or pragmatic reason for anyone to claim the islands, or fight for them, as the Spanish and Brits figured out in 1770.  An issue I would have  with your condescending tone (and lack of answering your own question) is that your source seems to have an anglo bias and does not give the Argentinian point of view.  I had zero agenda in the writing of my little piece but it does seem the link you posted as gospel does indeed have an agenda.  As for your statement, in the late 20th century, the reason why the islands are British is because of Margaret Thatcher, the British Royal Navy and British Royal Marines.</p>
<p>Thanx for writing</p>
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		<title>By: guirizano</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7883</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guirizano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7883</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps this will help next time you want to write about the Falklands. Just to get the facts and chronology correct.

http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf

The islands are British because the Falkland Islanders want it to be that way. Nothing to do with pride...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this will help next time you want to write about the Falklands. Just to get the facts and chronology correct.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf</a></p>
<p>The islands are British because the Falkland Islanders want it to be that way. Nothing to do with pride&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: guirizano</title>
		<link>http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/falkland-islands-nothing-more-than-a-symbol-of-pride/#comment-7860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guirizano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://symonsez.wordpress.com/?p=11831#comment-7860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Firstly, in 1870 Argentina had been a de facto independent country for the best part of 60 years (depending on whether you date independence to 1810 or 1816). 

Secondly, since Spain had recognised Argentine independence in 1859 it is highly unlikely, in fact impossible, that Argentina would still have had a Spanish governor in 1870. Oh and by the way, for the most part of 1870 Spain did not even have a monarch (see the Glorious revolution of 1868)!

You still have not answered my question. Since Argentina had taken her independence from Spain (and therefore what territory it could) by force, how exactly did Argentina inherit rights from Spain in the Falklands or anywhere else? Under what principle of international law could this be possible?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, in 1870 Argentina had been a de facto independent country for the best part of 60 years (depending on whether you date independence to 1810 or 1816). </p>
<p>Secondly, since Spain had recognised Argentine independence in 1859 it is highly unlikely, in fact impossible, that Argentina would still have had a Spanish governor in 1870. Oh and by the way, for the most part of 1870 Spain did not even have a monarch (see the Glorious revolution of 1868)!</p>
<p>You still have not answered my question. Since Argentina had taken her independence from Spain (and therefore what territory it could) by force, how exactly did Argentina inherit rights from Spain in the Falklands or anywhere else? Under what principle of international law could this be possible?</p>
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